My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

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Tommy Creep
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by Tommy Creep » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:48 pm

As that video shows, the amen break is the perfect example of why people should sample whatever they want.

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Syscrusher
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by Syscrusher » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:12 am

DS-10 Dominator wrote:Do you think it's fair or unfair that the drummer of The Winstons receives no royalties over all the Amen Brother drumbreak-loops? It's not a melody, but obviously it's something unique... just like an original melody.

Well... I wasn't commenting on the fairness of it just the fact of it.
Your "Amen Break" example is interesting, however, that particular drum beat had been used prior to the Winstons track many times, perhaps not at that exact tempo or with that alluring tonality or that interesting beat switching fill at the end of the break. It's a beat that every kid picks up on his own because it's a complex sounding beat that is actually relatively easy to play. Consider the example of When the Levee Breaks by Led Zeppelin: It is an immediately recognizable drumbeat and as soon as it starts you know what song you're listening to. However, I propose that it isn't the actual components of the beat that is unique but it's treatment and production - the beat itself isn't unique but it's captured performance is. If I sequenced that beat on an 808 I don't think you'd say "Hey! that's When The Levee Breaks". So yes I think the issue of copyright does pertain to sampling a particular performance but I bet John Bonham himself would have issues with the notion that he "composed that beat" or that it would be possible to plagiarize it.

I think obscuring a melody enough that it become unrecognizable - such as using it as the basis for species counterpoint - is, by definition, creating a new melody.

Could anyone claim to have "composed" the I-vi-IV-V chord progression? I don't think so, but Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers is quite unique from say "Stand By Me" by Ben E King or "Slave to Love" by Bryan Ferry. On the other hand, I don't think I've heard another song that uses the very unique chord progression in "Living Thing" by ELO...

I'm really just thinking aloud here for discussions sake so feel free to disagree.

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WMRhapsodies
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by WMRhapsodies » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:32 am

That "send yourself an envelope" thing is quite poetic, isn't it.

Many interesting info here.

Things are even more depressive in Spain, since the directives of the already highly unpopular SGAE, who is supposed to watch for audiovisual intellectual property, had been involved in a corruption case…

I haven't care about anything of this so far. It would be nice if anyone use my tracks in any way. It would be even cooler if someone make money out of it because that would mean is possible to make money out of it.

Besides, you may already know all songs are Pachelbel's canon:



But keep with the serious discussion here, is really interesting :) .
Last edited by WMRhapsodies on Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DS-10 Dominator
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:12 am

WMRhapsodies wrote:Things are even more depressive in Spain, since the directives of the already highly impopular SGAE, who is supposed to watch for audiovisual intellectual property, had been involved in a corruption case…
Dutch anti-piracy and royalty collection agencies are also corrupt, what a surprise...

http://torrentfreak.com/copyright-corru ... gn-111201/
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by WMRhapsodies » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am

DS-10 Dominator wrote: Dutch anti-piracy and royalty collection agencies are also corrupt, what a surprise...

http://torrentfreak.com/copyright-corru ... gn-111201/
"A musician who composed a track for use at a local film festival later found it being used without permission in an anti-piracy campaign". Lol, that's ironic. But unless it is a sign of a real large-scale mafia-like methods, I think it can not be compared to the spanish case:

"(six executives) were arrested and charged with embezzlement, fraud and gross misadministration over a racket that allegedly diverted large sums from SGAE to private firms controlled by executives from the collecting society. The fraud, which is being investigated by the Anticorruption Attorney’s Office, allegedly went on between 2003 and 2007. These firms appear to have received 26.4 million Euros from SGAE’s digital unit between 2003 and 2009. Investigators who looked at the services the companies provided said it is difficult to claim that this amount corresponded to market prices."

http://kluwercopyrightblog.com/2011/07/ ... orruption/

Just for informative sake, don't want to start a "mine is worse" discussion here :D -not that funny, actually-

("involved in a corruption case" was really not accurate...is more like the whole direction of the last decade has been revealed as corrupt, so the same organization that made you paid a fee for every CD, CD recorder, USB key, MP3 player or hard drive you bought over the last years: http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_ ... 88d4d28df2)

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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:46 pm

DS-10 Dominator wrote:
Do you think it's fair or unfair that the drummer of The Winstons receives no royalties over all the Amen Brother drumbreak-loops? It's not a melody, but obviously it's something unique... just like an original melody.
Saw this post coming!

Also...


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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:55 pm

Cool!


By the way: what to think of DJ SETS!!! Many DJs are basically infringing copyright, they might have bought the music but that does (always) not give them legal permission to play it and spread it. But: fuck that. DJing is part of the dance music culture, if you can't handle that you should'n make dance. Of course it's actually great and helpful if your music gets played.
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by Syscrusher » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:19 pm

DS-10 Dominator wrote:Cool!


By the way: what to think of DJ SETS!!! Many DJs are basically infringing copyright, they might have bought the music but that does (always) not give them legal permission to play it and spread it. But: fuck that. DJing is part of the dance music culture, if you can't handle that you should'n make dance. Of course it's actually great and helpful if your music gets played.
Technically, in Canada and most countries, the DJ and/or the venue should be paying a blanket licencing fee to the respective country's performing rights society (ie: SOCAN in Canada). Cue sheets (such as a radio station uses) for individual songs would not be necessary or practical so usually the fee is determined as a percentage of the gross income of the event but the tariffs can be complicated. If you check you will see that most professional DJs and venues are well aware of these fees and often include them in their service fees and quotes.

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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:05 am

Syscrusher wrote:
DS-10 Dominator wrote:Cool!


By the way: what to think of DJ SETS!!! Many DJs are basically infringing copyright, they might have bought the music but that does (always) not give them legal permission to play it and spread it. But: fuck that. DJing is part of the dance music culture, if you can't handle that you should'n make dance. Of course it's actually great and helpful if your music gets played.
Technically, in Canada and most countries, the DJ and/or the venue should be paying a blanket licencing fee to the respective country's performing rights society (ie: SOCAN in Canada). Cue sheets (such as a radio station uses) for individual songs would not be necessary or practical so usually the fee is determined as a percentage of the gross income of the event but the tariffs can be complicated. If you check you will see that most professional DJs and venues are well aware of these fees and often include them in their service fees and quotes.
But what if the music is not registered with a performing rights society then?
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Decktonic
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by Decktonic » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:59 pm

DS-10 Dominator wrote:
Syscrusher wrote:
DS-10 Dominator wrote:Cool!


By the way: what to think of DJ SETS!!! Many DJs are basically infringing copyright, they might have bought the music but that does (always) not give them legal permission to play it and spread it. But: fuck that. DJing is part of the dance music culture, if you can't handle that you should'n make dance. Of course it's actually great and helpful if your music gets played.
Technically, in Canada and most countries, the DJ and/or the venue should be paying a blanket licencing fee to the respective country's performing rights society (ie: SOCAN in Canada). Cue sheets (such as a radio station uses) for individual songs would not be necessary or practical so usually the fee is determined as a percentage of the gross income of the event but the tariffs can be complicated. If you check you will see that most professional DJs and venues are well aware of these fees and often include them in their service fees and quotes.
But what if the music is not registered with a performing rights society then?
It's up to the artist to register with a performing rights society. If not, you get nothing. I registered with ASCAP a few weeks ago.
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by QauNuckShin » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:18 pm

Decktonic wrote:It's up to the artist to register with a performing rights society. If not, you get nothing. I registered with ASCAP a few weeks ago.
Same thing in Sweden.

Which is pretty ridiculous, because that organization takes part in the copyright debate, on what I consider the "wrong" side. And of course, they claim to speak for "composers" in general, and their members specifically.

So if I sign up, which I would have to do in order to get what I'm owed from for-profit use of my music, I also support their idiotic view on draconian copyright law. That's pretty messed up.

Not sure about ASCAP, but I do seem to recall hearing that name in similar contexts.
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ugocapeto
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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by ugocapeto » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:06 pm

yeah, it's kinda of a clusterfuck. pardon my French.

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Re: My Haunted House submission, used without permission.

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:37 pm

Exactly, that's almost like a maffia practice to me, you have no choice.

I guess I would only register if I knew my music would be used for a TV production...

I recently did sound design for an iPad game, with a royalties deal (small percentage of every sale) and I'm really glad that there needs to be no copyright organization as the middle man (except Apple).
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