Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

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ChrisLody
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Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by ChrisLody » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:06 pm

Just thought i'd create a list of not so obvious things that ds-10 does, to jog my memory when i need it and for everyone else.

There's a bug in the kaoss x/y

There is a small bug in the kaoss pads which means in resets the HLD/SMT control to HLD everytime the sequencer is stopped. The display does not change but you have to 'remind' it by turning it off and on again, IT crowd style!EDIT From 'An Owl' If the pattern is reached by playing into it from another pattern the SMT or HLD settings are recalled correctly.

Drum hits will not always render the same


When using white noise it is truely random noise. Each time you enter and exit drum edit or reload a song some hits can sound different because the noise is generated differently each time.

Drum fx are mono, and are sampled with the drum sounds


The drum fx are previewed and rendered in mono so are no good for adding width to your sound. They have some good uses however such as doubling up a drum sound to create 32nd note hits using a tempo synced, zero feedback delay. Using the gate you can then chop off the 32nd notes so you hear only 16ths (like normal) or you can pitch them up and down to add swing to a straight pattern.

The kaoss x/y can be used as a crude envelope or lfo for some tasks


The kaoss pad can be use for an extra envelope which cannot extend beyond a bars length for tasks such as FM ammount by using it to modulate the osc1 pitch in knob using the SMT setting, be aware of the kaoss x/y bug when doing this though. It can also be used as an extra tempo synced lfo to what ever it can be routed to, its best to program it manually through the sequencer for this task. You've also got 2 (x and y) per synth, nice one.

The lfo can be stopped completely

If the lfo is set to its lowest value and bpm is not on then it stops completely. This is useful because the square lfo starts in the positive position. It can then be used a a fixed positive voltage which is useful when fine tuning the ammount knobs its connected to. It can also be used to detune a whole synth which can be used to create a super saw by detuning one synth against another.

osc1's and osc2's noise are different

Osc 1's noise is white noise and doesn't repond to pitch where as osc2's is a fast sample and hold waveform and responds to detune.

Legato/Retrigger between patterns

The sequencer will legato into another pattern if the exact same note is played at the end of one and the begining of the next but not if the note is different, regardless of the instrument sound being used (when looping a single pattern it will legato to any note). This can be useful because it means that a pattern can sound different depending on the note a legato settings of the pattern preceding it. For example it can be used so that a note at the start of a pattern falls silent when being played after one particular pattern but sounds when it follows a differnt pattern, this also works for the drum sequencer. Its a great way to get extra melodic and rythmic complexity from a limited number of patterns.

(From Geolm) Bpm synced LFO's restart between patterns, Non synced LFO's do not

Moving into a new pattern that uses a BPM synced LFO will restart the LFO. However moving into a new pattern that has a non BPM synced LFO it will not restart and it will maintain the position of the previous LFO, even when moving from BPM synced to non synced.
Last edited by ChrisLody on Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:48 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:20 pm

Cheers for these chris !
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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by ChrisLody » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:29 pm

No worries. I'm sure there must be more i can add. i love how versatile it can be when you know its ins and outs.

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by ChrisLody » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:18 pm

Thought of a couple more and added to list. I think i've spent too much time using this synth, i may be officially obsessed!

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:39 pm

What a great topic!

Never noticed the randomness when using noise actually, cool though :D.
Also never knew noise 2 was different...

- I think everyone has noticed this one: when you save your song, or a synth patch(?), everything stops for a few seconds , when it's done loading some of your LFO or other synth settings(?) are not aligned to the 16 steps anymore as they were before. It's as if it remembers the current step in the sequencer, but resets the LFO to 0 again or something...

- That kaosspad bug, is that the one that was officialy announced by AQI (statement was later removed)? I wonder if they fixed this in the later batches. (http://www.giantbomb.com/korg-ds-10-plu ... 35-267236/)
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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by ChrisLody » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:14 pm

DS-10 Dominator wrote:- That kaosspad bug, is that the one that was officialy announced by AQI?
I think so but i only recall them announcing it about the plus version. Guess that must have stemmed from them copying the original over to dsi. Its the only bug i've found and its quite a small one, and i'm Mr Bug Finder General! :ugeek:

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:03 pm

Yeah in COUNTLESS hours of using it I think it crashed only once or twice (talking about using an original cartridge). I believe that was while saving or something.
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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:20 am

:O i havent crashed mine yet !
Maybe im not creating enough beef on it. D:
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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by deap » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:27 pm

ChrisLody wrote:
DS-10 Dominator wrote:- That kaosspad bug, is that the one that was officialy announced by AQI?
I think so but i only recall them announcing it about the plus version.
Yep, found some info about the AQI statement here:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/1 ... plus_bugs/

Don't know if the bug only appears in the japanese version or if the U.S. release might also be affected ..

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by last-action-hero » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:16 pm

believe me, i'm working A LOT with ds-10 (first version not plus) and indeed there are more bugs! i don't feel like describing them excactly but i'll give it a try.

first thing; every program sounds different! i have 3 x the real ds-10 and 2 x gameboy DS and there some differents in soundcolour.

indeed the noise sounds are different, i notised that allready.

than the bug in kaosspad.. is great! becouse when you have made a nice synthi sound you can ad an extra filter by using kaoss x/y!! put x to cutoff and y to peak, it works as an extra filter, cool!

further more: when a make a bassdrum in a song /pattern save it and start a new session when i try to make the éxact bassdrum (same settings etc) i will ALLWAYS sound different!

and there are also some bugs in the patch edithor. settings wil never be 100% and seems to have a live of it's one sometimes. but that's fun i think, it will give you a wider range of sounds.

and there's a differance in volume between synth 1 and 2; synth 1 is softer than 2. (i think it's a ds hardware problem)

also the tempo settings aren't always exact. for example when using 130 bmp it will around 132 bpm.

but ok, ds-10 is software program and it's quite an achievement to make it, so i'm glad we musicfreaks have it :D

ps; my ds-10 have never crashed, it's very stable even after days of playing ;)

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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:15 am

last-action-hero wrote:
than the bug in kaosspad.. is great! becouse when you have made a nice synthi sound you can ad an extra filter by using kaoss x/y!! put x to cutoff and y to peak, it works as an extra filter, cool!
I don't quite understand, can you explain step by step?

And what do yo mean by patch mode has a life of its own, I haven't noticed that yet, but I'm a bit chaotic so I often don't notice things ;).
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Re: Quirks of ds-10

Post by Decktonic » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:10 am

DS-10 Dominator wrote:
last-action-hero wrote:
than the bug in kaosspad.. is great! becouse when you have made a nice synthi sound you can ad an extra filter by using kaoss x/y!! put x to cutoff and y to peak, it works as an extra filter, cool!
I don't quite understand, can you explain step by step?
I'm pretty sure this is not a bug... sounds like last-action-hero is describing the Kaoss X/Y feature, which I've used many times.
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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by LPChip » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:41 pm

I've got a cool bug that I used in my song Walking.

If you have a patch that uses the Porta knob set to anything but zero (bottom left), and you have an effect with a delay on that synth, you can actually hear a bug. Enter some melody in the pattern screen, and make sure that the last note has a 100% on it.

The following pattern cannot have any note on the first place, but for the best effect, this synth should not have any note at all.

If done correctly, you'll hear somekind bell/snare kind of sound that is basically a pitch from the previous note to the lowest note and its echos. I can't really describe it. Just listen to:

at 0:57. Happens later in the video too.

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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by NeoS » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:55 am

Question: I've recently opened an older save file on KORG DS-10, and the bass sound is very different from how it used to be - is this considered a bug? If not, what is the cause?

Oh, I also have another bug for this list: sometimes after stopping playback, notes that were sounding continue to play. I've had this occur for both drum and synth sounds.
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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by ChrisLody » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:49 pm

NeoS wrote:Question: I've recently opened an older save file on KORG DS-10, and the bass sound is very different from how it used to be - is this considered a bug? If not, what is the cause?

Oh, I also have another bug for this list: sometimes after stopping playback, notes that were sounding continue to play. I've had this occur for both drum and synth sounds.
Well the sounds continuing when playback has stopped isn't really a bug, it just to do with the envelope release time on the synths and gate time/type on the drums. I've seen it used to great effect on a youtube video to create a breakdown by stopping the song and letting the envelopes alter the sounds.

The sounds loading differently is a bit of a pain. I've found its mostly to do with the phase of the oscillators when they are tuned to octaves or intervals, to stop this happening use Sync where possible or detune the oscillators. Another thing that can ruin things is using noise and the sample and hold lfo, especially in the drums as they are randomised fresh everytime the track loads so always sound different. Hope that helps :)

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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by NeoS » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:39 am

ChrisLody wrote:The sounds loading differently is a bit of a pain. I've found its mostly to do with the phase of the oscillators when they are tuned to octaves or intervals, to stop this happening use Sync where possible or detune the oscillators. Another thing that can ruin things is using noise and the sample and hold lfo, especially in the drums as they are randomised fresh everytime the track loads so always sound different. Hope that helps :)
I have experienced what you're describing, however I think this is a different phenomenon. It is the drum-2 converted into a bass sound, using both VCO1 and VCO2 as saw waves an octave apart from each other. No LFO, and the timbre isn't changing due to being out of phase. Simply put, it sounds weaker than it did about a month or two ago.
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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:24 pm

NeoS wrote:
ChrisLody wrote:The sounds loading differently is a bit of a pain. I've found its mostly to do with the phase of the oscillators when they are tuned to octaves or intervals, to stop this happening use Sync where possible or detune the oscillators. Another thing that can ruin things is using noise and the sample and hold lfo, especially in the drums as they are randomised fresh everytime the track loads so always sound different. Hope that helps :)
I have experienced what you're describing, however I think this is a different phenomenon. It is the drum-2 converted into a bass sound, using both VCO1 and VCO2 as saw waves an octave apart from each other. No LFO, and the timbre isn't changing due to being out of phase. Simply put, it sounds weaker than it did about a month or two ago.
Could be because of the shifted angle of the moon.

;)

No I don't know. Are you using a delay on that drum channel? I've had weird things happen to my delay once. I made a double-time sound for a shaker by tweaking the delay, but later it shifted from double-time into a weird swing.
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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by NeoS » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:01 am

Nope, no delay. Thanks for the input, though.
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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by ChrisLody » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:30 am

DS-10 Dominator wrote:I've had weird things happen to my delay once. I made a double-time sound for a shaker by tweaking the delay, but later it shifted from double-time into a weird swing.
I've used that trick before to get double time drums in a halftime sequence, if you see what i mean. I had a go at making some drum and bass where the drums were double time and the bass wasn't, once you've got you delay synced you can then use the gate time of the drums to mute the second drum sound on each hit where you need to, very useful. The swing is because the delay is rendered in respect to the current tempo if its synced, if the sequencer tempo is then altered the delay time is shifted. But then to complicate things if the project is saved and reloaded it will re-render straight.

Ds-10 is so complicated sometimes, and thats a good thing :D

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Re: Quirks of DS-10 (Bugs)

Post by NeoS » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:45 pm

Here's another obvious one which hasn't been mentioned: koass pad recording lags slightly, meaning that whatever you enter in record mode is shifted back a bit in the pattern. In order to record properly, you have to delay your movements to align with the proper place you want that change in sound to occur.
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