DAWs

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Decktonic
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DAWs

Post by Decktonic » Thu May 20, 2010 6:19 pm

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

So I'm working on improving my DS10 tracks and finding the 16 pattern limit very frustrating. It's good for the creative process because it limits my options and forces me to be creative but I usually don't have enough room for transitions. I think what I need to do is start using a DAW so I can record the stems of my track or even sample the various instruments and modify as I need to mix the whole track. I've never worked with any DAWs before (other than once toying around with Fruity Loops a LOOONG time ago) and they seem rather daunting to me. I just know that I want good support for patterns, the occasional piano roll, really good support for using/mixing/chopping external audio samples, and the usual features. I'm going to try out some stuff over the next week but I figured this would be a great place to start a thread on using DAWs with KORG DS10. If you have any that you use, please share your process and any tracks that you have done with them. I'll share my own findings as I go.
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ChrisLody
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Re: DAWs

Post by ChrisLody » Thu May 20, 2010 9:05 pm

Hey Decktronic

Over the years I've used quite a few DAWs in the hunt for one that suits me perfectly. I currently use FL studio (aka fruity loops), Energy XT2 and Cockos Reaper. All of these DAWs would be able to record stems of audio out of ds-10 but they vary vastly in terms of other features and price, but I'd have to say if i was moving up from ds-10 to a software studio i'd probably forget about recording ds-10 and just dive straight in make music with them directly using virtual instruments plugins. A lot of what can be learned from ds-10 will translate directly to subtractive synth plugins.

FL studio is probably the most direct upgrade from ds-10. Its probably the easiest to use of the ones i've used and the top price bundle has great value for money with all the included plugins, but it does midi in an odd way and it's expensive!

Energy XT2 is cheap, also fairly easy to use and has a very flexible semi modular routing system, but tends to be a little buggy around the edges and lacks a little in some features.

Reaper is a FANTASTIC sequencer, especially where audio and midi recording is a priority. It is super complex to use as its based around the way a traditional DAW works more than the others. It does however have an unlimited evaluation period and a personal licence is relitively cheap.

The best thing to do would be to demo a few and see what you like the most, probably start with Reaper as it willallow you to save your work in demo where the others won't.

Hope this helps. (sorry for the essay :D )

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Syscrusher
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Re: DAWs

Post by Syscrusher » Thu May 20, 2010 11:19 pm

Hey there Decktonic.

I've used Cakewalk when I was PC. Now that I'm a Mac guy I use Logic Pro. If you don't use a Mac this won't be much help as Logic is proprietary to the Mac. I find it intuitive and the plug-ins are generally fantastic. There are tonnes of cool free third party plug-ins that emulate cool vintage synths like the SH-101 and CS-80 to name a few. I use the Korg Legacy synth pack (with the super cool MS-20 controller) a lot with it. Logic uses AUs (audio units) rather than VSTs however it is quite easy to use a shell for any plug-ns that aren't available as AU's.

Good luck.

Oh yeah, thanks for the heads up on Reaper Chris!

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deetak
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Re: DAWs

Post by deetak » Fri May 21, 2010 12:36 am

I don't know anything about the technical aspects of DAWs, and have only used one, so I don't have any real advice to offer you, for fear of giving you wrong information.

But, to second the mention of Reaper, all of the tracks on my soundcloud (http://soundcloud.com/deetak ), except for "Electrocopter", were written/recorded in Reaper. For those tracks, I was working almost entirely with MIDI (except for the audio/vox samples): either by punching in the notes via piano roll, or inputting them through a midi-keyboard, which I usually edited slightly after in the piano roll to correct any mistimings. The notes triggered samples (e.g. drum hits) or were played by VSTs, which may have had effects on them (e.g. EQ, distortion). I was not recording any hardware synthesizers. The main distorted instrument in the Haezer remix was copy/pasted and chopped in different ways from the original audio, so that was not midi.

Reaper: http://www.reaper.fm/

You may try asking on another forum, like KVRAudio, to see if that may help. The Reaper forum is well supported, if you're interested in asking people about it, there.

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Decktonic
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Re: DAWs

Post by Decktonic » Fri May 21, 2010 6:26 am

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm on a Mac and I don't have any MIDI input devices. Reaper seems like a very useful tool. FL Studio would probably be easiest for me to work with. I also looked at Renoise which is still a bit weird for me... I just can't see why people would want to compose music _vertically_.

I know that I really like the sounds of the DS10 and I've created some patches / techniques that I could not possibly reproduce elsewhere (at least not with a lot of work), so it's likely that whatever software I work with, I'll still be using the DS10 a lot in the production. To be honest, if the DS10 supported 64 patterns instead of 16 and had a few more synth tracks, I wouldn't even need a DAW. Anyway, I'll post more updates as I come up with stuff, in the meantime, if anyone else has suggestions, share them!
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Re: DAWs

Post by Syscrusher » Fri May 21, 2010 6:38 am

Decktonic: If you are using a Mac then I really suggest you look into Logic. For the money it's probably one of the most powerful DAWs out there. It looks daunting at first but it's really just garageband+++.
You can get Logic Express for a couple hundred bucks and if you hit the wall with that you can upgrade very easily to Logic Pro. The editing and other functions are so intuitive I rarely ever have to look in the manual.

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Re: DAWs

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Fri May 21, 2010 9:38 am

Image
+
Image
= live action

I'm still surprised there are STILL so few DAWs focused on playing live loops (that can be of different lengths). You can also use 'unlinked envelopes' in Live, which like an un-BPM-synced modulation.

I think NI Maschine offers similar functions, not sure...
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Re: DAWs

Post by Syscrusher » Fri May 21, 2010 2:51 pm

DS-10 Dominator wrote:You can also use 'unlinked envelopes' in Live, which like an un-BPM-synced modulation
Yeah, forgot about Ableton. I have Live but I haven't explored it much. That it has something similar to the un-BPM synced modulation is interesting. The un-BPM synced mod is one of my favourite things about the DS-10. It kind of makes the DS-10+ into a multi-oscillator modular synth (I guess the MS-10 and MS-20 were considered semi-modular).

As far as controllers go, I'm interested in the Novation Launchpad which is similar to the APC40. I'd also like a Monome but they're pretty expensive.

http://monome.org/

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ChrisLody
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Re: DAWs

Post by ChrisLody » Fri May 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Decktonic wrote:Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm on a Mac...
Forgot to ask about that. Unfortunately there is no version of FL studio for mac so that's out of the question (unless you want to get into intel mac bootcamp stuff, which doesn't sound like fun).

Still plenty of options to choose from though.

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Re: DAWs

Post by Decktonic » Tue May 25, 2010 1:27 pm

Has anyone here worked with Reason? The interface looks really nice.
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Re: DAWs

Post by ubey » Tue May 25, 2010 2:52 pm

i heart ableton live. i just love linux more so i can't use it. i have a 40h monome and that, with live, is so great for mashing up beats. these days i just play with blips from my pocket.

do check out live. it is quite versatile and for me seemed very intuitive. logic is wonderful too. not too sure if there is a demo for logic. i preferred the synths in logic but arranging audio and mixing it up in live is just too good. try them all out and see what works for you

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Re: DAWs

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Wed May 26, 2010 5:51 pm

Decktonic wrote:Has anyone here worked with Reason? The interface looks really nice.
I started out making electronic Music with Reason. It's good to learn all the basics of electronic music production. I used it for 2 years, version 2 and 2.5 I think. Version 4.0 introduced a good synth, Thor. Its other two synths are ok, but not as good as many VST/AU synths in my opinion.

I have no need for Reason anymore, because Ableton Live
- is really quick to work in, once you understand the workflow
- doesn't look as "good", but is designed more functional. Its made so everything can fit on one screen without scrolling.
- has live functions (non-linear playback), the so called "session view"
- offers AUDIO TRACK support. Very important for me cause I use and edit audio recordings a lot for my compositions. You can use audio-loops in reason though. But only in REX or other loop formats. In Ableton you can warp audio, I use this to align bits sampled out of classical recordings to a beat.
- supports AU/VST instruments
- has Max/MSP integration now, to create your own effects.
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Re: DAWs

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Wed May 26, 2010 11:26 pm

I have used ableton live for ages now, i use it for recording audio, playing live dj sets, and its also a good way to write down different parts and experiment with what goes well together using the loop launching.
I found it easy to learn with the built in tutorials and one of the other great things about it is the clean interface, so easy on the eyes to work with, everything is really clear.
I also use a program called rewire, which lets me use reaons instruments by controlling them in ableton, very handy.
DS-10 Producers that I have seen live:
AuxPulse, Critical Strike, DS-10 Dominator

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Re: DAWs

Post by Decktonic » Thu May 27, 2010 3:18 am

HarleyLikesMusic wrote:I have used ableton live for ages now, i use it for recording audio, playing live dj sets
I know I'm a complete noob for asking this, but what does it mean to do a DJ set with Ableton Live? Are you sequencing loops live as you go? I only know how to DJ with a pair of turntables and a bunch of MP3s.
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Re: DAWs

Post by ubey » Thu May 27, 2010 3:53 am

you can trigger clips with a set bpm and link them together. clip view and session view are different animals.
session is like similar to the majority of trackers out there, clip view is like a matrix. you have to put data on each block within the grid, a recorded live looped guitar, triggered to start and stop or have dragged in samples that loop well too. you click the play button and mash stuff up.

it is one of those things that is hard to explain, there are some clips on the ableton website with some good info and with hands on type approach.

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Re: DAWs

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Fri May 28, 2010 10:57 pm

Reason 5 released, at least you can record samples now.... http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/05/2 ... /#comments
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Re: DAWs

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Sat May 29, 2010 11:26 am

Decktonic wrote:
HarleyLikesMusic wrote:I have used ableton live for ages now, i use it for recording audio, playing live dj sets
I know I'm a complete noob for asking this, but what does it mean to do a DJ set with Ableton Live? Are you sequencing loops live as you go? I only know how to DJ with a pair of turntables and a bunch of MP3s.
Id explain but its much easier to see it visually :) heres a nice video ive found

Harley
DS-10 Producers that I have seen live:
AuxPulse, Critical Strike, DS-10 Dominator

(I will travel the world and add a lot more to this list one day)

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Re: DAWs

Post by ugocapeto » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:00 pm

i've started using FL Studio and as Ms. Perry would say, I like it.
There's a pretty cool synth plugin called simsynth with 3 oscillators.
Piano roll is very ds-10 like and it's pretty easy to pick up thanks to online manual.
You can try it for free but you can't save anything.

There's also Reaper that's nice, although i haven't fiddled much with it.

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Decktonic
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Re: DAWs

Post by Decktonic » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:56 am

Well I just wanted to let everyone know that I started working with Ableton Live and I love it. I wouldn't use it to DJ like that video up there ^ but for producing actual tracks I think it's great.
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Re: DAWs

Post by hadji2 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Sorry for jumping in so late, but Ableton combined with a Launchpad is a really powerful combination.
The Launchpad has been a great compositional tool for me.

There are some great videos of people using Ableton for their DJ sets. Check out the Abelton forum for more info.

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