Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

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Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:42 pm

Classic!

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by ChrisLody » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:51 pm

Its crazy how good this is!

Its way beyond me. I think I'll have to slow it down if I'm ever gonna work out how its done. Its a whole branch of synthesis I've yet to explore.

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by bryface » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:09 am

ChrisLody wrote:Its crazy how good this is!

Its way beyond me. I think I'll have to slow it down if I'm ever gonna work out how its done. Its a whole branch of synthesis I've yet to explore.
formant synthesis isn't really too complex a concept, the trick is in figuring out the sequence of frequencies to emulate chunks of vocal speech.

the simplest example is a hissy "s" sound, which is basically high-frequency noise.
as for the word "am", that consists of a short note (the "a" sound) followed by a low frequency hum (the "m" sound). it's up to you how to do the hum, either by taking a noise waveform and taking out the higher frequencies, or by using a low triangle sound.

the DS-10 doesn't let you reproduce the sounds with extreme granularity, but if you keep your expectations low you might get some surprising results =) my cover of purple motion's Second Reality features an attempt at this, at about 2:40. there's a vocal sample in the original song that consists of the phrase "i am not an atomic playboy". i couldn't reproduce the actual syllables that well, so i decided to make it more of a daftpunk robot rock kind of voice.

the only part that actually evoked the original sample's quality was the last syllable "boy" for which i used a bass line that sweeped up the cutoff. if you sound it out with your mouth you can sort of figure out that the word "boy" starts with a soft percussive "b" sound followed by a low-frequency vowel sound ("o") that morphs into a higher-frequency vowel sound ("y").

anyway, that's about as detailed an explanation i can give without totally butchering what i learned about formants in my linguistics class four years ago. hope that helps =)

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by HarleyLikesMusic » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:16 pm

wow bryface thats actually helped me out abit, i'll try do some words on the ds soon !
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by ChrisLody » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:44 pm

Thanks Bryface, i'll have to have a go with that. I'll try it on my daw too for a bit more synth flexibility.

Sounds like a cool cover by the way! :D

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:01 pm

That track is PHAT indeed.

OMG that lead in the end. :| Really amazing.
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by bryface » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:52 am

thanks for the feedback guys!

here's a really good example of formants. i wonder who put the track together?


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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by Burrisplace » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:17 am

Does anyone have the sav file of the Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe?

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by DJ Hollow Life » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:28 pm

lol oh man i feel bad now when i learned how to get screams on Korg i was happy but talking wow thats beyond me!

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Fri May 28, 2010 6:36 pm

Does anyone have more tips for formant/vocal sounds?!
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by Decktonic » Fri May 28, 2010 9:38 pm

bryface wrote:here's a really good example of formants. i wonder who put the track together?
That's the demo track that comes with the DS10+
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by Geolm » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:31 pm

I don't have a ds10+ (because i'm living in europe ...) can someone share a patch description, pleeeease ?

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:27 pm

I know CardiacTrance has some tips on this.

I'll ask her to post here.
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:56 pm

Here's a picture from the DS-10 Performance Guide book (present from the lovely CardiacTrance)

Use this patch by Tomoaki Kanamori (used for the Perfume cover)
IMG_1035.JPG
and then:
Automate (piano roll and kaoss x y pianoroll): note, gate, volume, sustain, vco1 wave
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by Geolm » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:24 am

Thank you very much, I'll test this patch as soon as possible !

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk) by denkitribe

Post by CardiacTrance » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:54 pm

There are several ways to emulate formants on DS-10.
I'll explain the method Mr. Tomoaki Kanamori from KORG did on Perfume "Polyrhytym" cover.



Some Logics:

Here is the example line from the song Polyrhythm:

Ku-ri-ka-e-su Ko-no po-ri-ri-zu-mu


Yeah, it's Japanese. But don't worry!
You can see the each sounds consist of a basic vowel sound (a/e/i/o/u) or
combinations of vowel and consonant sound (such as k, n, z).
There are same kinds of concepts(vowels and consonants) in other languages too.
formant01.jpg
Japanese vowel sound "a" and "i"
First let's simulate the basic vowel sounds.

When you see the spectrum of each vowel sounds, there are "peaks" (Where specific
frequencies are higher in value). It characterizes and differenciates the each vowels.
By simulating the frequency structures, you can come up with a sound
which "kind of sounds like" the human voice.

As you know, you can create a "peak" with the peak/cutoff filter on DS-10.
formant02.jpg
Sawtooth + cutoff/peak filter
By using the ring modulation (VCO2 -> VCA IN), the 2nd "peak" can be generated.
formant03.jpg
Sawtooth + cutoff/peak filter + ring modulation
Let's start:
Take a look at the diagram that DS-10 Dominator uploaded as you read through
the description.
*** I recommend you to use Deck A for trying this if you are using DS-10 +
file.jpg
Guide Book
From the SYN EDIT screen,
Pick the sawtooth wave to start with, because it is rich in harmonic overtones.
Turn the Drive up a bit to add more harmonics. VCO2 is only used as the modulation signal
later, so turn the balance all the way to VCO1, and set the VCO2's freaquency the highest.
Turn attack and porta for more natural result.

Set the peak pretty high, and set EG INT on the VCF section to around 2 o'clock.

By this point if you put some notes on the sequencer and move the cutoff knob around,
you should already be able to find some points that sounds like human voice.

Now move onto the SYN PATCH screen.
VCO2 -> VCA IN (Ring modulation) is used to generate the 2nd "Peak".
MG WAVE OUT -> PITCH IN are connected just to create the vibrato.

EG -> VCO2 PITCH IN for automating or switching vowels....
....Okay, this part is pretty complex for me to explain so I will kinda re-write what the
book says using my own words.

VCO2 PITCH IN's polarity is set to negative here. By this, when the SUSTAIN level increases,
the frequency of the "peak" which was generated in the VCF section, increases. Meanwhile,
the frequency of the 2nd "peak" which was generated by the ring modulation, decreases.
So by using only 1 control (SUSTAIN), you can control 2 "peaks" at the same time.
Also because the 2 "peaks" move away from each other, the width of the frequencies
of each "peaks" can vary.

...okay hope it makes sense.

Now move on to the SYN KAOSS screen.
On the 3rd Kaoss pad, set the X axis to SUSTAIN. Set the Y axis to VCO1 WAVE.

The value of X axis is used to control the vowel sound, and the value of Y axis
is used to add the consonants.
ex.) Noise is used to generate consonants like t,z,s etc.

After you set the Kaoss Pad, move on to the SYN SEQ screen.
From here, it will be all about trial and error. You need to find points that sounds
the most natural. You might sometimes need to go back to the SYN EDIT or PATCH
screens to do some tweaking on the sound. I really recommend you to try it by yourself
and see how it works.

Example:
I put the patch for my song "Sharply Bent Wire" as an example.

Sound file:
voice.mp3
"Sharply Bent Wire"
(102.47 KiB) Downloaded 322 times
The idea is, I devide the line like this:
Sh-ar-p-ly be-n-t wi re

for the consonants Sh, p, b, and t, I used Noise.

Here are the actual screen shots. Sorry the quality is not the best.
01.jpg
Sharply Bent Wire Patch 01
02.jpg
Sharply Bent Wire Patch 02
I'm not a sound physics person or anything like that, so please notify me if my
explanations are wrong or something. :-)

...And help me with my English. :cry:
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:09 pm

THANKS!!! That's a very good and detailed explanation!
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

Post by ugocapeto » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:30 pm

well, thanks a lot CardiacTrance .. very cool.

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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

Post by DS-10 Dominator » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:30 am

Things like this are turning this forum into a treasure. Image
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Re: Formant Synthesis (singing Daft Punk by denkitribe)

Post by tacticalbread » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:52 am

This is really quite brilliant.

I've seen it done with a piano, but with only four oscillators, this is impressive.

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